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QUESTION MEME/AMA

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Question meme for Kuroro Lucifer and Nanami Kento.

You ask me, I ask you, until we're bored of questions!!!!!!

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Any CR updates for Echo and/or Zwei re: Kuroro? I can ask separately if you want, and if so, you can pick one!!

Edited 2022-07-12 17:54 (UTC)

With Zwei, there is actually appreciation now! And maybe gratitude! Their adventures in the ruins left a fairly strong impression on him in terms of where their bonds ACTUALLY were and the affection he got from it was very high. He joked around thinking he would fluster her, and then she just flat-out said it and he was like "...oh. Huh."

"...are you asking if I don't want you to be a mindless drone?!"

"Yes. I want to hear it."

"Eh... Uh... I don't want you to be a mindless drone!"

Especially as people keep challenging him about his self-worth, stuff like this will come back to haunt him later because that sincerity will back up those statements. Like Zwei, who obviously didn't like him at first, suddenly noted that she likes him as he is? Wants him to keep his mind? Wth. Cute.

He's not going to forget about the cage either, but he didn't want to bring that up yet.

In some ways, where Zwei feels like someone who is kind of on his same wavelength, Echo feels like someone who is so opposite to himself, that his interest is naturally higher on principle. They're both easy to tease, but Echo is by default, less emotional so when she gets riled, it's kinda funnier.

LIKE HE HAD TOLD HENRY, his top five people he's attracted to is Beato, Henry, Kennedy, Dokja and Echo. The attraction is based more on "People I care about but I'm interested in." The thing with Echo is that at first, he truly did think she was like him, someone who did not see the value in herself. Although she kept telling him, HEY VALUE YOURSELF, she never seemed to do that herself. That's why he asked her the question because he figured that if she answered truthfully, she would have to admit that "she has no value". He could be wrong, of course, but this is why he was so invested in like... her being so invested in HIM. It feels familiar, but not.

And then. She declared loudly that she wanted to have a purpose and value. It was kind of a disappointment! Not that he dislikes it though, he'd RATHER she have an identity of her own. But it's sort of like thinking that someone finally understood you, and then you realize that o. They don't actually. Which he's had this problem since day 1. He doesn't care that she's different from him, but after all the needling and prodding he's gone through, it would be nice to have someone that didn't try to fight him on it!!!!

So it's almost like he lost something he kind of valued, but in return, he got something more interesting out of it so it's not really a negative thing. It just means he'll get to have more challenges with her which is cute.

IF YOU DID APP A SECOND (Third) WHO WOULD YOU APP

Edited 2022-07-14 20:10 (UTC)

U know what I want. But nanami and dokja can wait until after this thread.

So can Kuroro and dokja cry

In a lot of ways, Dokja is a headache wildcard that Nanami really needs.

Nanami as a person is very strict to the rules, like very direct about following them to a T. Dokja is someone who tries his way to bend every rule in the book to fit his needs without breaking them to the point of no return. In a way, them being on a team is hilariously bad because of it. However, Nanami and Dokja are stuck with a bond simply because they've experienced Celestrials together. They shared the same team even though they did not get along great all the time, and so that bond is just naturally going to be there. I wouldn't say that he LOVED his experience with Jae as his teammate, and yet, that is not an experience he would trade away.

I think there were always like small things that made Nanami realize the strange complication of Jae's character. Like when he had so much fondness for this one character in his story or when he lets Nanami know that the kids escaped Celestrials alive to help him worry less or even when he tricks him into taking care of Vita, it's like oh okay, he isn't actually a BAD bad guy. This is just a guy that is so used to getting what he wants by having to maneuver and manipulate others to do so. And luckily a lot of what he wants is for the good of people. The methods are honestly bad, and Jae knows what he's doing so it's very aggravating, but at the same time, it does manage to get the job done, too.

That's the thing that drives Nanami insane though LOL. LIKE ITS GOOD IN THAT NANAMIN RECOGNIZES THAT DOKJA WANTS TO DO GOOD FOR THE WORLD, but he hates how bossy he is and how validated he gets by his actions!!!! THIS IS BOTH A BAD AND GOOD THING. Nanami's way of doing things IS something he fully believes in and finds that it works. As of now, Salamander is doing well, he thinks they all seem to have enough confidence in themselves, and he's managing to let them have control in their decisions too. So when Dokja is like NANAMIN STOP BABYING THE KIDS and Nanami is like IM NOT BABYING THEM, YOU FOOL, and Dokja ignores him anyway, it's like [Nanami pops a blood vessel]. BUDDY, I AM NOT BABYING THEM, PLEASE. They are still children and I will not force them to carry and insane burden, but also I know this is a death game where they will be forced to carry the trauma and should be treated like so.

However, Dokja is also sometimes right. Nanami DOES need to relax and ... he does not. He can say he goes to bed on time, but yeah, his dreams are awful. It isn't unlikely that he deals with nightmares fairly regularly, and he worries all the time about Gojo and Geto and Vita and Dokja even. In that regards, he does need someone to sort of force him to stop because he absolutely won't.

So I think that's the fun part about their relationship. They are so unlike each other, and yet in a way, it forces Nanami to step outside of his box to have to deal with someone like Dokja. And Nanami does need that sometimes. Sometimes, it's good someonne outside of your control can force you to let go of all that control. He genuinely does like Dokja, like sincerely. He still calls him Jae because that's a fond memory from Celestrials of that shared connection between them.

But also he plans to punch him in the face.

Edited 2022-07-23 21:28 (UTC)

HE LOVES UUUUUU, DOKJA-SSIIIII. You might not believe it but it is the absolute truth.

Kuroro's level of emotion is so hypercontrolled in literally everything, but his genuine affection for Chipmunk is real and he isn't very good at hiding it. As much as he has had aggravations with Dokja, the base is he trusts him a lot and he likes him a lot. It could be said that the level of like is insincere because he would like anyone on Chipmunk. However, that's not necessarily true. His affection for Kennedy is different from Dokja which is different from Zwei, much like his affection for Beatrice is different from Inari and different from Jesper, etc. There are things he appreciates about Dokja, like the fact that sometimes he's dense but also very passionate about the things he's passionate about or how he looks exasperated all the time or how determined he is to get Kuroro to talk about himself.

One thing that's hard for Kuroro to parse is sort of the connection between his story and his value because I think in Kuroro's mind, the two are connected. The reason for this is because his goal IS to make sure that the Spider is SO WELL KNOWN that even if they die, the story of the Spider is left behind and a lot of that is tied to his intrinsic self-value or lack there of. If he, as a person has no value, he cannot leave behind a story or an identity. However, if people recognize the Spider and find them a valuable target, they can become remembered through THEIR story.

So that said, I think that disconnect is honestly what got Kuroro tripped up and sort of stuck in the objectives pit and how he got caught up in Dokja's arguments and having trouble refuting them. I said this to Jeva about Battler, but in Umineko, it's very much two different truths/perceptions of the same topic, both coming from specific filters in their world. What is absolutely true for Kuroro doesn't mean it's true for Dokja, and when faced with alternatives to the truth Kuroro knows, that's where the cracks in his identity start to happen. This also gets reinforced by Echo and Kennedy harassing him a lot, and trying to adjust to Chipmunk's way of thinking when he's so used to his own. No one here really seems to understand his truth so it's very hard to get reinforcement of his ideals through that.

AND YET HE DOESN'T STOP. At no point does he just walk away from people, in fact he welcomes the challenge, invites it himself even, because he CANNOT stop himself from trying to explore the darkness of his own humanity. He says in canon that he doesn't like having to look at his own self, but when the snake forced him and everyone to feel fear, that was a weird opening to literally everything else. Knowing he can feel something he's not used to, get hit by that objective, and have that reinforced is something he CANNOT help but want to explore.

And Dokja is definitely the one that navigates it the hardest and digs in different ways thanks to his obsession with stories. And he doesn't always get to choose when that happens, and that REALLY aggravates him because he can't back down from it. The knife thing was 10000% because he was already mad about being pestered when he wasn't expecting it, already in a bad mood about things, and then Dokja said something that offended him (though that got smoothed over). It's very much a cat who gets their nails clipped when they don't want it, and they're offended you ever did this.

On the other hand, the connection grows deeper and he feels like he can somehow trust Dokja more, it's because HxH folks are crazy this way, but it's true. The more they fight, the more they argue, the more they learn about one another and the closer they end up getting. After all, if a new identity is being made slowly but surely, the relationships are going to evolve with that. I wouldn't say he evolved very much, maybe like 3-4% at best? But that's because the starting foundation of such an evolution takes a while and once the right crack happens, the evolution will become extremely volatile and extremely fast, and since Chipmunk was there with him during that process, those bonds will evolve with him.

The tl;dr is essentially, Kuroro tried to bruteforce a strong team dynamic at the start reflecting what he knows because that's the setting he likes best, and then he realizes he's the one having to adjust to said team, and now he's caught in this weird process of identity shit with Dokja and as much as it makes him mad, it makes him feel much more closer to him, too. If Dokja died and was dead forever, he would sincerely cry.

Edited 2022-07-25 19:37 (UTC)

cr me,,

THIS IS INTERESTING CR AND I WILL TELL YOU WHY.

In a lot of ways, most of his teaching Itadori has specifically been about teaching the basics of Jujutsu sorcery to someone who doesn't know anything. Teaching the basics, sort of teaching people how to focus, etc. People like Kaz and Vita are those he works well with in terms of like ... teaching a general idea of respecting authority to someone who doesn't quite get those boundaries, but not in a pushy way , like a genuine way. Maybe respecting authority isn't the right term. I think guidance is better?

ANYWAY, so people like Jamil and Yuki are interesting because...they don't appear to need guidance but they might actually need the most guidance because of it. They're very certain about themselves, fairly self-aware of their faults and positives and don't take it personally when offering suggestions, but because of that, it's even harder to like. Get through to them.

FOR EXAMPLE, he believes that Yuki is actually VERY STRONG. There is a lot of potential for his physical/fighting abilities. Simply put, he needs a little bit more control and a little bit more focus, and he could in fact just be one of the physically stronger ones on the team. And his response was "If I'm honest, I'm almost always trying to rein myself in as it is. Even against 'fair targets.' I don't think I lose any technical precision when I'm too angry to consider all the circumstances, and I can still keep to 'fair targets,' but you're probably right that I at least lose some amount of restraint."

At some point, he has come to realize just how much these kids have had to teach themselves about these sort of things, and how there will be a difficulty in getting them to like...rely on him a little more instead of themselves. Jamil had said the same thing of like "well, I have to be the one to leave Kalim alone so that's what I've decided." LIKE TBH KAZ IS LIKE THIS TOO, but the aggression makes it easier to sneak in and teach him because Kaz has such a strong mentality and hunger in wanting to become strong.

I apologize, I think this is sort of hard to understand, but the main thing is in Nanami's opinion, because Yuki and Jamil had to rely on themselves so often, it is harder for them to lower their walls because the walls they've built have plenty of openings. Those openings are ones that they allowed for themselves so that they can criticize their own shortcomings without getting hurt. It's hard for them to take down the walls when to them, "people can come in and out so what's the problem?"

The problem is they're STILL WALLS. And tearing down walls are loud, messy, and painful. And tearing down walls that seem to function well is even more painful because it feels like you're destroying something that you put a lot of effort into and it doesn't seem like there's any reason TO destroy them? They have a use??? Wth??????

IN GENERAL HE LOVES YUKI A LOT THOUGH, HE'S VERY PROUD OF HOW SUFFICIENT HE CAN BE AND THE WAY HE TRIES TO IMPROVE HIMSELF, FILLING UP THE GAPS WHERE HE FEELS WEAK AGAINST. He wants him to be happy and to be kind to himself, he wants all of Salamander to recognize how good they are. He will never give up on him, ok ok.

IF YOU NEED CLARIFICATION, LET ME KNOW my words are everywhere today, but reverse me thanks.

KURORO IMPRESSIONS OF BATTLER AFTER THEIR LITTLE GAME + SPECIFICS ABOUT FEELINGS RE: THE HINT!!!

Also I guess How Nanami Doing re: Gojo right now?

HIS IMPRESSION!!

The general impression is that unfortunately, Battler seems to be a decent guy. Or at the very least, he is someone who has some strong moral convictions, someone who won't budge very easy from what he's going after, and someone who will not leave things alone if he is determined to chase after them. If he wants to protect Ange? He'll send out a mass group text without any fear of repercussions. If he feels like his questions aren't being answered? He'll keep asking. He can see how Beato could fall for someone like this guy because she seems to get knocked over by those with strong personalities like this, and she has a lot of [issues]. Kuroro hasn't gotten to the root of her issues yet, but he can tell it's something very very deep so knowing who Battler is, he understood that dynamic immediately. This isn't a bad personality, but it is a troublesome one and that's something he looks forward to.

Also bullyable, very important.

IN TERMS OF THEIR GAME, Kuroro tells the truth because it's part of the challenge, right? The more truthful you are, the more you can discover a person's humanity and the deeper you can dig into them. If he refuses to answer or dodge a question completely, it's actually not intentional so much as he didn't think there was a deeper answer until asked to think more on it.

But because these answers goes through his specific brain filter, it makes things hard to understand sometimes unless you know what that brain filter is (the HxH filter). Likewise, Battler has his own filter (Umineko filter) so Kuroro can tell that they both are speaking about things that the other doesn't understand the context of, and that is probably where a lot of the risk is going to happen, at least for sure on Kuroro's end. (Haha, ch 4 reference about the truth being different depending on the person bahahahahahaha)

LIKE FOR EXAMPLE, BATTLER'S HINT: "Without love, the truth cannot be seen."

He understands that there is probably a lot of context that he does not understand with this because for one, he doesn't get "love". He CAN love people, he loves the Spiders, he loves his team, he loves Finch, there is a sincerity about all of that. But if you do not care about yourself, there is a fundamental part missing that makes love hard to understand especially the romantic kind. So to him, none of this really makes sense. But in a way, he understands that what Battler says is a valid hinmt because his entire thing with Beato is about "the truth" between both of them.

A LOT OF HIS PERSONAL ISSUES ARE SPECIFIC TO HIS WORLD AND THE TRUTH PLACED UPON HIM (those who exist in Meteor City do not exist according to the rest of the world), and so it's been the current theme of his Snake game arc, and something Dokja has been hounding but at a story angle. It'll be interesting from an Umineko angle too because Battler and Beato are both two different opinions from their world.

However, it's gonna be a big pain to change that worldview and to force him to look at things differently.

HE IS INTERESTED IN YOU, YOUNG BATTLER, HE LOOKS FORWARD TO THIS BATTLE.

Edited 2022-07-25 15:32 (UTC)

Battler very much wants to get to know Kuroro as someone aside from just "the person Beato is interested in/has hooked up with", because like... Battler told himself this situation is different from the one he's familiar with (re: his parents'...) and he will MAKE SURE it's different by engaging with the other party with... if not full transparency, then enough transparency so that they can communicate if and when there's issues. Either between themselves, their teams, or maybe even with Beato.

So he was completely honest saying he wants to get to know Kuroro naturally, but at the same time... uh. Uminekos be like this and thus he kind of made the Get To Know You thing into a bit of a game. Primarily because he wanted to see how Kuroro engaged with that aspect of a Very Umineko Thing (especially since Beato and Battler's whole deal involves games and competitiveness and, as you said, finding out the truth of each other via these things). That Kuroro was game for it is a positive. That he even just had a bit of fun with it (re: trying to embarrass Battler) also is a good thing!

He kind of sees Kuroro as like... kind of in the same area as Beato in some ways? In the whole "seems to have layers, seems to obfuscate truths or maybe just isn't the type to engage with the truth in an honest fashion", so he's definitely wanting to poke at that more. But Battler HAS keyed into the fact that Kuroro Cares A Lot. IT'S REALLY FUNNY TOO because it's not even just answering the question about Chipmunk, but the question about what happened with the 2 thieves. And Kuroro's seeming lack of understanding why Battler would bother with condolences. This IS Battler also missing out the deets on Meteor City and its people but Battler also suspects that people don't usually express these kinds of empathetic sentiments to Kuroro a lot, too. So it might even be that Kuroro just doesn't understand he has a lot of care in him??? (Battler, pls)

He definitely thinks Kuroro will struggle a bit with his hint in that case, but that's part of the journey and an important one at that, so good luck, Kuroro!

He diiiid notice that Kuroro didn't ask too much about Battler's circumstances and focused more instead on like... personality, maybe? The questions seemed more in-line with understanding How/Who Someone Is Currently more than Why Is This Person Like This, which was more Battler's angle. Battler's a little wondering if that's because Kuroro's gotten info from Beato or if he's wanting to avoid getting info ABOUT Beato's circumstances from Battler. Either way, it's an interesting approach and apparently Kuroro decided he was interesting enough to continue talking with, so Battler's chill about it.

The big spoiler about this whole game is that while Battler gave honest answers, a lot of his reactions are... staged. A little. He's actually not as embarrassed about some things (though, like, they ARE embarrassing, still) as he was playing up, and he honestly doesn't mind if people have this information about him. Hence why the answer to Kuroro's question about what question he didn't want to have asked actually involves The Actual Truth to a degree. Because that's where Battle thinks the actual risk is. Which is why Battler said he didn't feel like there was much risk on his end with the game--he kind of already guarded the riskier aspects by making the rule at the start, lol.

Kuroro is also right that what Battler considers risky isn't the same as Kuroro's. Since like. Y'know. Having A Lot Of Feelings Openly About Something isn't an issue for Battler.

Battler does think Kuroro is coming away from the whole thing with a clearer picture of how Battler operates, but he is curious to see how Kuroro will engage with that going forward.

He will never say this out loud but the state of Gojo atm makes Nanami extremely depressed lol. Genuinely hates seeing Gojo struggle, but not surprised at seeing him struggle either. It's hard but in Jujutsu Society world, it is like an absolute fact that Gojo is just simply the strongest. That's literally the entire goal of Gojo and Nanami tbh is to build a jujutsu world where that doesn't HAVE to be a fact. Where the kids, who have true potential to the change the world, they can surpass Gojo, and be what the world truly needs. People who don't need strength to be strong, but simply people who can change the world for the better.

But the fact at this point in time is that Gojo is the strongest. And it's obvious now that Gojo doesn't believe it, and that is just mind-blowing to him. However, he's not surprised because...well, he's been trapped in that box, and he knows a vague idea of what happened because uh, he did die during that. He figured Gojo will probably feel bad about that, and for whatever else he finds out.

But seeing him upset here too is like ,,, ah, yes. I see. I must keep myself composed at all times or Gojo will just downward spiral harder.

And on top of that, Nanami did in fact...die. He's dead. He doesn't know if he'll be able to return to the Jujutsu world or not, but he does know that at this point, he can't change what's been done. So he's a little but more honest with Gojo about how he feels about him (and he's also honest with Geto too). He isn't just a colleague, he IS a friend. I mean, who knows if he'll get a chance to say this again after all of this is said and done with. If he did not value Gojo, he would not have been the first person he called when he decided to come back to Jujutsu High.

So in one way, his honesty towards Gojo is higher. As much as he gets mad, he's a little bit more forward with his true feelings towards Gojo and what he has done for those around him. On the other hand, part of his honesty also backslid because he cannot add more pressure to Gojo's mental state. It's clearly very bad, and anytime he can help with Snail and their dilemmas, the better it will be for Gojo in the long run, and hopefully he'll learn to believe that Nanami wants to help him sincerely.

Even if that means Nanami's own stress increases lol, BUT ITS DESTINED TO INCREASE NO MATTER WHAT, OH WELL.

REVERSE ME FOR ALL THANKS

give me cr

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QUESTION MEME/AMA

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KURORO -> ZWEI

KURORO -> ECHO

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Nanami -> Dokja

KURORO -> DOKJA

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KURORO -> BATTLER

BATTLER -> KURORO

NANAMI -> GOJO

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